Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] Pirate Party Germany - "Opinion Forming Tool" (Working Group) - Next Meeting

[Dinu Gherman <gherman AT darwin.in-berlin.de>]

Alexander Praetorius:

> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike AT zelea.com> wrote:
> 
> > >  ** "Information media" or "information system" is perhaps not a
> > >     good name for this category.  All three corners of the
> > >     triangle are concerned with informational content.
> >
> > Maybe.  So could you make suggestions for a better name? :-)
> 
> "Information" seems too broad, and "fact" too narrow.  Maybe
> "knowledge system"?

For me "knowledge system" triggers too many other buzzwords like knowledge 
base, expert system and artificial intelligence which are probably all wrong, 
at least in this context, and perhaps in others, too. 

> Thats an open issues.
> Currently we are trying to create precise definitions for several terms. 
> One of them is "Information" and it seems as there is no consensus about 
> what it should mean.
> So personally I think "Knowledge System" might be a better word, but there 
> is a complex of terms that are very hard to define.
> For me, it's a chain of terms in the following order:
> Noise -> Signals/Signs/Symbols/Data/Evidence -> Information -> knowledge -> 
> wisdom

I'm not sure we have to dig this deep, do we? If so, I wonder what the metric 
behind this list is? ;-) I guess it must be related to human consciousness, 
somehow.
 
> Some additional thoughts:
> 1. Noise

I think noise deserves no special position here, being essentially nothing 
else but "useless" or "background" data, non-data so to say. Ok, it could 
also be data we are just not yet able to interpret, and then it's also just 
that, data.

> 2. Signals/Signs/Marks ... occur and can be measured/represented.
> 2b. The LINK between signals/signs/marks and data is the method of 
> measurement. If its broken, data becomes noise.
> 3. Data has no Meaning. Data are symbols. Data is believed to be an 
> expression about reality.
> 3b.Data interpreted by humans has meaning and is called Information.
> Information can be represented by different data sets. Information is 
> THOUGHT
> Information occurs when symbols refer to something that has meaning (which 
> is only inside a persons mind)
> 4. Knowledge is build through learning of information.
> Knowledge is about building a consistent model from information.
> Knowledge can produce information (thoughts) in one's mind.
> 
> (5. Wisdom is about doing. Wisdom means application of knowledge in a 
> consistent manner all the time ...but this quickly gets very vague. ...)

I think this raises too many philosophical issues for which this might not be 
the best place to discuss. 

> So what's the currently called "information system" all about?
> - It's a news system about what goes on in discussion and decision system.
> - It probably informs one about the status quo, that means all accepted 
> decisions.
> - It might contain a glossary, maybe a copy of statistics or other 
> important sources that were used during discussion or that back up decisions
> - It allows customization about what you are interested in, what do you 
> wanna know, and so on...

Just add one word and the purpose of this information system might be more 
instantly clear to many: it tries to collect, store and maybe help structure 
*objective* data (or information for that sake) about the real world. I'm 
sure Alex will provide a good definition of what "objective" means... ;-)

The problem I see with that is that as soon as humans enter the game it 
becomes quickly very difficult to determine objective data about their 
behaviour and relationships.

Cheers,

Dinu