Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] Pirate Party Germany - "Opinion Forming Tool" (Working Group) - Next Meeting

["marc" <marc AT merkstduwas.de>]

Hi Michael,

You can download the mp3 from the following location:
http://web-work.de/area51/stuff/Mumble-2012-10-03-21-20-04-mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de-Mixdown.mp3

Would be great if you could manage to attend to our upcoming mumble session 
on Monday.


With regards to our 'Conceptual Overview Diagram' 
(http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/3/30/DSFS-ConceptualOverview-A.jpg)
the 'Information System' deals with the information more in a sense of a 
Wiki or Knowledge base. So you can say it is fact based information specific 
for a context. Whereas the 'Discussion System' deals more with the 
information in a sense of pro and con arguments. While the 'Decision System' 
deals with all kind of information it generates new ones in form of 
decisions.

So that way I personally see Votorola (as far as I understand it) in the 
genre of 'Discussion Systems'. Indeed all systems interact and share data. 
So the distinction between the three systems may sometimes be fluent...


But the most important point is, that there is an evolution of the 
'Discussion System' by design due to competion between different 
implementations of specific solutions for 'discussion techniques' and 
'opinion forming'.


Cheers
marc

-----Original Message----- 
From: Michael Allan
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 2:18 PM
To: Piraten AG Meinungsfindungstool ; Start/Metagov
Cc: Marc
Subject: Pirate Party Germany - "Opinion Forming Tool" (Working Group) - 
Next Meeting

Alex and Marc,

Thanks for keeping us informed.  I read the notes from the first
meeting, but was unable to download the audio (please see below). *
I hope to attend tomorrow's meeting if I can manage the time slot.

Marc said:
> The next mumble session is coming on Monday, 8th October 2012 at
> 9.30pm (CET+1, that's UTC+2).  In this session Ronald Grindle gives
> us a deep insight into his concept of the "Architecture of a
> Democracy 2.0".

Alex said:
> ... We'd love to have speakers who can talk about "Liquid Feedback?"
> or "Adhocracy?" too. We also would like to learn about the concept
> of "FGA (Federated General Assembly)" and "OVN (Open Voting
> Network)". ...

The OVN is defunct I'm afraid.  It never had enough participants to
get started.

Thomas says your working group is about interconnecting different
tools, which interests me.  I'm looking at one of your diagrams:
http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/3/30/DSFS-ConceptualOverview-A.jpg

                  --->

               Discussion
                 media          |
              /          \      |  information flow (clockwise)
             /            \     V
            /              \
           /                \

 Information  ------------   Decision
   media **                   media
                 <---


If I were able to help at some point, it would probably be on tooling
for the information media (bottom left).  That's where I would place
Votorola.  Votorola is designed to support discussion aimed at mutual
understanding and consensus, which it does by providing a kind of
social-structural backbone. **  (I used to think of LiquidFeedback as
inhabiting roughly the same niche, but now I realize the two have
diverged to the point where it no longer makes sense to compare them.)
But although Votorola is designed to support discussion, it is not a
discussion medium itself.  It is separate.

I joined your list.  I hope to use a translator to learn more about
your plans.  (I don't intend to post except in English cross-threads
such as this.)


 * I couldn't download the audio.  bayfiles.com served me a Windows
   exe for this purpose, which froze on my old XP box.

** "Information media" or "information system" is perhaps not a good
   name for this category.  All three corners of the triangle are
   concerned with informational content.


Thanks again,

--
Michael Allan

Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
http://zelea.com/


marc said:
> Just to clarify some confusion on time zones:
>
> The next mumble session is coming on Monday, 8th October 2012 at 9.30pm
> (CET+1, that's UTC+2).
> In this session Ronald Grindle gives us a deep insight into his concept of
> the "Architecture of a Democracy 2.0".
>
> Also on Monday our working group AG MFT (short for AG 
> Meinungsfindungstool)
> has its regular meeting shorten from 9pm to 9.30pm. This is just to make
> some necessary decisions on our conceptual papers.
>
> We are looking forward to hearing you on mumble!
>
> Server: mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de
> Port: 64738 (standard)
> User: <choose any alias>
> Password: none
> Chat Room: Bund / Arbeitsgemeinschaften / Technik(IT) /AG
> Meinungsfindungstool
>
> Cheers
> marc
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Alexander Praetorius
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:37 PM
> To: Metagovernment Project ; info AT liqd.net ; Michael Allan ; conseo ; 
> Thomas
> von der Elbe ; Daniel Reichert ; AG Liquid Democracy ; Piraten AG
> Meinungsfindungstool ; info AT interaktive-demokratie.org ;
> adhocracy-dev AT lists.liqd.net ; justus_wingert AT web.de
> Subject: [AG Liquid Democracy] Pirate Party Germany - "Opinion Forming
> Tool"(Working Group) - Next Meeting
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
>
> (Who wants What?)
> the Pirate Party Germany, in particular the working group "AG
> Meinungsfindungstool" has invited developers and people interested in the
> topic, to join forces in a mumble conference.
>
>
> THE PAST - (What happened?):
>
> Our initial Meeting with international developers on  the 3rd of October
> 2012 was very successful.
> A. After a short round of introductions to each attendee, Slash gave a 
> short
> overview of the current status of our working group 'AG
> Meinungsfindungstool': he expressed, that from our point of view, the
> process of decision-making can be seperated into three interacting 
> systems:
> 1. Information System,
> 2. Discussion System and
> 3. Decision System.
> => Our working group deals with all questions regarding the Discussion
> System.
> B. Then we talked about the intention of coming together and the current
> problems we face with Liquid Feedback and other tools of this genre.
> C. Our first international Speaker was "Pietro Speroni di Fenizio" and he
> informed our working group about a tool called "Vilfredo goes to Athens".
> The in-depth presentation took its time, but it inspired the working group
> and was defenitly worth it. If you like to learn more about it and our 
> first
> meeting as a whole, you can download the audio here:
>
> http://bayfiles.com/file/mL53/GDbWPZ/Mumble-2012-10-01-21-05-58-mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de-Mixdown.mp3
>
> The notes to the session can be found here:
> http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/2012-10-03-Notizen
>
>
>
> THE FUTURE - (Waht's next?):
> Because this event (planned as a one timer), was so inspiring and
> successfull, we decided to host a series of meetings, where people from
> outside can share their thoughts on the matter.
>
> We plan to have a single session for each concept or idea to be presented.
> The main intention is to get closer in touch with different projects and
> learn more about other concepts and iedeas.
> It doesnt have to be a software prototyp, it could also be a concept or
> anything that falls into the scope of our "AG Meinungsfindungstool"
> (Meinungsfindungtstool = Opinion Forming Tool)
> In every meeting, there will be a speaker that will present his approach, 
> or
> the approach of the developer team he's part of.
> If you know people who develop tools or concepts or have something to say 
> in
> the general matter, please feel free to forward this email to them, so 
> they
> might contact us.
>
> - When?
> => Our next Meeting will probably take place on upcoming monday (October
> 8th).
> The normal meetings of our working group take place on mondays 8pm (+2 
> UTC),
> but we'll send one doodle for each week now, as long as we're hosting the
> series in order to find the best possible time slot.
> http://doodle.com/mf3iccnhvc2r2rvm#table (It doesnt have to be monday, but
> mondays are preferred by our working group)
>
>
> - Where?
> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/
> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/NRW:Mumble-Server
>
> Server: mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de
> Port: 64738 (standard)
> User: beliebig
> Passwort: keins
> Raum: Bund / Arbeitsgemeinschaften / Technik(IT) /AG Meinungsfindungstool
>
>
> - What?
> The next session is coming on Monday, 8th October 2012 at 9.30pm (CET+2). 
> In
> this session Ronald Grindle is giving us a deep inside into his concept of
> "Architecture of a Democracy 2.0".
> http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/NextMumbleAgenda
> Another future Speaker, probably "Thomas von der Elbe", will speak about
> "Votorola".
> We'd love to have speakers who can talk about "Liquid Feedback?" or
> "Adhocracy?" too. We also would like to learn about the concept of "FGA
> (Federated General Assembly)" and "OVN (Open Voting Network)". There are
> hundreds of tools and concepts all over the world beeing currently 
> developed
> and within the scope of our working group. If you know some of those
> brilliant tools or ideas that are already out there somewhere, or if you
> know about concepts that fall into the scope of our working group or are
> somehow related, then please feel free to share this email and contact us.
>
>
>
> If you'd like to learn more about us - currently only available in german
> language:
> - in General: https://wiki.piratenpartei.de/AG-Meinungsfindungstool
> - in Particular:
> http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/Anforderungsanalyse-Grundidee
>
> If you have any queries, don't hesitate to contact our working group!
> https://service.piratenpartei.de/listinfo/ag-meinungsfindungstool
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for your attention
>
> --
>
>
> Best Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> ***********************************************
> Alexander Praetorius
> Rappstraße 13
> D - 60318 Frankfurt am Main
> Germany
> [skype] alexander.praetorius
> [mail] mailto:alexander.praetorius AT serapath.de
> [web] http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:Serapath
> ***********************************************