AW: [Int-koordination] [pp-eu] [pp-eu.council] [pp-eu.board] Complaint for the upcoming council meeting of PPEU

[Bastian <bastian AT piratbb.de>]

Hi Thomas,

that's interesting. Maybe you can tell the public, where you have discovered 
that: " council meeting seems not to be in session as nobody has opened the 
meeting".

Is there a _public_ platform, website, pad, mumble, stream, whatever? 

Thanks for elucidate me.

Best regards
Bastian

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Thomas Gaul [mailto:thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Mai 2017 12:36
> An: int-koordination AT lists.piratenpartei.de; Bastian; PPEU coordination
> group; Thomas Gaul
> Cc: PPEU Board; Council of the European Pirate Party
> Betreff: Re: [Int-koordination] [pp-eu] [pp-eu.council] [pp-eu.board]
> Complaint for the upcoming council meeting of PPEU
> 
> Hello Bastian,
> 
> so far as I can see the council meeting seems not to be in session as nobody
> has opened the meeting.
> 
> I will take that very question into the meeting as soon it is opened.
> 
> But thank you for the hint.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
> Am 26.05.2017 um 12:31 schrieb Bastian:
> > Good Morning,
> >
> > may I ask for an official agenda and monitoring pages of this hidden 
> > event?
> >
> > Due to Article 14 (2):
> >
> > “Council meetings are normally open to the public unless the Council
> > itself decides otherwise for all or part of its proceedings. This shall 
> > be the
> exception and may only be decided for reasons of protecting the data of an
> individual or for similar concerns.”
> >
> > Article 14 (3) “Non-voting representatives of Observer members and Non-
> Voting-Delegates from Ordinary Members, and Members of the Board may
> participate as well.”
> >
> > Where can I find the decision, that the council-meeting is non-public to 
> > be
> held on a hidden platform?
> >
> > There is only ONE official notice on the blog, where can I find all 
> > necessary
> decisions made by the board?
> >
> > https://europeanpirateparty.eu/invitation-to-the-european-pirate-party
> > -first-council-meeting-of-2017/ (2.5.2017)
> >
> > Article 14 (7): “A link to a website with the agenda in the invitation 
> > shall be
> sufficient and necessary.”
> >
> > Btw: This public was outdated due to Article 14 (7):”… invite all members
> by email at least one month before the date of the Council meeting…”
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
> > Bastian
> > Coordinator PPDE  for Incorporation PPEU
> >
> > Von: pp-eu [mailto:pp-eu-bounces AT lists.pp-international.net] Im
> > Auftrag von Muriel Rovira Esteva
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Mai 2017 01:14
> > An: Thomas Gaul
> > Cc: Internationale Koordination; PPEU Board; PPEU coordination group;
> > Council of the European Pirate Party
> > Betreff: Re: [pp-eu] [pp-eu.council] [Int-koordination] [pp-eu.board]
> > Complaint for the upcoming council meeting of PPEU
> >
> > Dear Thomas,
> > There is a list of the delegates under the "Quorum" agenda item on VoteIT.
> The particular email addresses provided by the delegates are not there,
> because in some cases they are personal emails.
> > It would be nice to recommend the delegates or another representative
> from the parties to register to the mailing lists, but I'm afraid we cannot
> force them to do so against their will, specially since there are many 
> lists and
> I'm not even sure the Council decided on any particular one being an 
> official
> channel. Maybe that would be something that could be proposed and
> decided on the Council Meeting.
> >
> > As you know, you can spend months trying to have the updated contacts
> of the members, and still find out after all this time that there's nobody 
> at
> the other side. I guess we all agree that it's a responsibility of the 
> member to
> ensure its contact details are updated if they change them, but of course, 
> we
> try our best nonetheless.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> >          Muriel
> >
> >
> > 2017-05-26 0:45 GMT+02:00 Thomas Gaul <thomas.gaul@pp-
> international.net<mailto:thomas.gaul AT pp-international.net>>:
> > Dear Muriel,
> >
> > If you say so, I will follow your advice.
> >
> > The proposal will be presented to the Council in time, using Vote-IT.
> >
> > And on another issue, which parties are “accredited” atm. Think that might
> be of interest as these mailing-lists we write to deem to have all delegates
> on it. If not, the board should have addressed the admins for it to just add
> those who are new etc.
> >
> > Enjoy the night until the meeting will start.
> >
> > And I would even recommend to send an additional email to board’s
> channels with all the changes being around and all the hints you can give.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > Von: Muriel Rovira Esteva
> > [mailto:muriel AT pirata.cat<mailto:muriel AT pirata.cat>]
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Mai 2017 00:39
> > An: Thomas Gaul
> > <thomas.gaul AT pp-international.net<mailto:thomas.gaul@pp-
> international.
> > net>>
> > Cc: PPEU coordination group
> > <pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.
> > net>>; Muriel Rovira Esteva
> > <muriel AT pirata.cat<mailto:muriel AT pirata.cat>>; PPEU Board
> > <pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-in
> > ternational.net>>; Internationale Koordination
> > <int-koordination AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-koordination@lists
> > .piratenpartei.de>>; Council of the European Pirate Party
> > <pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.council AT lists.p
> > p-international.net>>
> > Betreff: Re: [pp-eu] [pp-eu.council] [Int-koordination] [pp-eu.board]
> > Complaint for the upcoming council meeting of PPEU
> >
> > Dear Thomas,
> > I think that it's better (for transparency and for record keeping) that 
> > the
> proposals coming from a member are put forward by their delegates and not
> the Board.
> >
> > I'm afraid many registered delegates are not on any of these mailing 
> > lists,
> so they may not be able to follow what's going on. Therefore, it's better 
> if all
> the formal discussions and proposals take place on the VoteIT meeting and
> not on other channels.
> > Greetings,
> >           Muriel
> >
> >
> > 2017-05-26 0:04 GMT+02:00 Thomas Gaul <thomas.gaul@pp-
> international.net<mailto:thomas.gaul AT pp-international.net>>:
> > Dear Muriel,
> >
> > thank you for this.
> >
> > As for "the additional round" the previous email had been an official
> > motion to the PPEU-Council on behalf of the PPDE delegaates, despite
> > the wording.
> >
> > If there is the need for PPDE to do it within the tool "Vote-IT" and
> > you say so we will do so.
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Thomas
> > Am 25.05.2017 um 23:58 schrieb Muriel Rovira Esteva:
> >> Dear Thomas,
> >>
> >> Thank you for your suggestion. The system has already a built in
> >> Support contact form, so I've added my email to it in order to
> >> receive any messages sent there, and I also added a small note in the
> >> welcome page so that people will see it even if they can't register.
> >> I've tried it and it worked well, please let me know if you run into any
> problem with it.
> >>
> >> Regarding the election of a new board, right now the agenda item is
> >> there for formal reasons, but of course it's useless because we
> >> didn't receive any nomination on time. According to our statutes, in
> >> order to be able to nominate candidates "(7) The Council may decide
> >> on additional rounds of voting and the admission of new candidates,
> >> if a position could not be filled."
> >>
> >> It is my understanding and suggestion that, as soon as we have
> >> carried out the basic procedural decisions (chairs, agenda, quorum),
> >> that we should propose to the Council to approve an additional round
> >> of admission of candidates. This can be proposed under the agenda
> >> item "Other motions", if you want, or under "Election of the new
> >> board". It would be great if PPDE makes that motion so that the Council
> can decide on it.
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >>          Muriel
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-05-25 22:41 GMT+02:00 Thomas Gaul
> <thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de<mailto:thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de>>:
> >>
> >>> Dear Muriel,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thank you for this. Please add an email address plus text for the
> >>> public on the main page so if they are interested to follow the
> >>> meeting have a possibility to contact you (or others) for adding
> >>> them in if they have problems.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Another issue.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am now in the system. But I miss the opportunity for the council
> >>> to “reopen the call for candidates” as the council has to decide on
> >>> it, according to the statutes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That very decision has to be on there somewhere. If not this will be
> >>> the request to add this as a motion on behalf of PPDE to the PPEU-
> Council.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thomas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Von:* pp-eu
> >>> [mailto:pp-eu-bounces AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu-bounce
> >>> s AT lists.pp-international.net>] *Im Auftrag von *Muriel Rovira Esteva
> >>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2017 22:15
> >>> *An:* Council of the European Pirate Party <pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-
> > <mailto:pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-%0b>>>
> > international.net<http://international.net>>
> >>> *Cc:* EU Election coordination group
> >>> <pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu AT lists.pp-internationa
> >>> l.net>>; PPEU Board
> >>> <pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-
> >>> international.net>>; Internationale Koordination
> >>> <int-koordination AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-koordination@lis
> >>> ts.piratenpartei.de>>
> >>> *Betreff:* Re: [pp-eu] [pp-eu.council] [Int-koordination]
> >>> [pp-eu.board] Complaint for the upcoming council meeting of PPEU
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> I am creating now the users "by hand", you should receive an email
> >>> from me in a few minutes.
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>>            Muriel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2017-05-25 21:20 GMT+02:00 Thomas Gaul
> <thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de<mailto:thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de>>:
> >>>
> >>> Hello Tony,
> >>>
> >>> thanks for you efforts. I did not receive any mail from the system.
> >>> (spam folder is empty as well)
> >>>
> >>> I was using this email address.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>>
> >>> Thomas
> >>>
> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>> Von: int-koordination-request AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-
> koordination-request AT lists.piratenpartei.de> [mailto:
> >>> int-koordination-request AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-koordinat
> >>> ion-request AT lists.piratenpartei.de>] Im Auftrag von Tony Motakis
> >>> (tvelocity AT gmail.com<mailto:tvelocity AT gmail.com> via
> >>> int-koordination Mailing List)
> >>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2017 17:50
> >>> An:
> >>> pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-i
> >>> nternational.net>
> >>> Cc: Council of the European Pirate Party <pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-
> > <mailto:pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-%0b>>>
> > international.net<http://international.net>>; EU Election coordination
> > group <
> >>> pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu AT lists.pp-international
> >>> .net>>; Internationale Koordination <
> >>> int-koordination AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-koordination@list
> >>> s.piratenpartei.de>>
> >>> Betreff: Re: [Int-koordination] [pp-eu.board] Complaint for the
> >>> upcoming council meeting of PPEU
> >>>
> >>> Hello Thomas,
> >>>
> >>> Can you confirm whether you got an invitation email in the last
> minutes?
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Tony
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Tony Motakis
> >>> <tvelocity AT gmail.com<mailto:tvelocity AT gmail.com>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Hello Thomas,
> >>>>
> >>>> With which email address(es) have you tried to register? I don't
> >>>> see a registered user with your name/email.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you using the register link here?
> >>>> http://voteit.europeanpirateparty.eu/register
> >>>>
> >>>> Please also check your spam folder, while I investigate things from
> >>>> our side for possible causes. If you checked yesterday, please
> >>>> check again, there might have been a delay.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Tony
> >>>>
> >>>> 2017-05-24 23:18 GMT+02:00 Thomas Gaul
> <thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de<mailto:thomas.gaul AT piratenpartei.de>>:
> >>>
> >>>>> Dear board of PPEU!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I made several attempts to sign in with the official Vote-IT via
> >>>>> http://voteit.europeanpirateparty.eu/.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for now I have not received any response from that very system.
> >>>>> So no sign in had been possible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had made several attempts with even different email addresses.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The board should assure that the participation in the Council
> >>>>> Meeting is assured for those being officially part of it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Additionally, as assured by the statutes the meeting shall be open
> >>>>> to the public. As for the Vote-It tool I have found no way as to
> >>>>> really assure the public can participate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As the assumed start (25.05.2017 00<tel:%2825.05.2017%2000>:00
> >>>>> CEST) is coming close I expect the board to act very quickly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And for another thing, on the Vote-IT tool is mentionend a "how to"
> >>>>> <https://prezi.com/mwgmftmou_qn/present/?auth_key=5hjiaos&;
> >>> follow=hoch1kcutd31&kw=present-mwgmftmou_qn&rc=ref-80413>.
> >>>>> This introduction is no longer available.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please help out a.s.a.p.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All delegates and the public should be able to participate. Please
> >>>>> take care of it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for your efforts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thomas Gaul
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Delegate to the PPPEU-Council for the Pirate Party of Germany
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115 Berlin, Germany
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
> >>>>> (Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister),
> >>>>> Kristos Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
> >>>>> (Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich
> >>>>> (Stellvertretender Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier
> >>>>> (Stellvertretender politischer
> >>>>> Geschäftsführer)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> pp-eu.board mailing list
> >>>>> pp-eu.board AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.board AT lists.pp
> >>>>> -international.net>
> >>>>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.board
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> int-koordination mailinglist
> >>> int-koordination AT lists.piratenpartei.de<mailto:int-koordination@list
> >>> s.piratenpartei.de> The list homepage: https://lists.piratenpartei.
> >>> de/sympa/info/int-koordination
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> pp-eu.council mailing list
> >>> pp-eu.council AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu.council@lists.
> >>> pp-international.net>
> >>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.council
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> pp-eu mailing list
> >>> pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu AT lists.pp-international
> >>> .net> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pp-eu mailing list
> >> pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.net<mailto:pp-eu AT lists.pp-international.
> >> net> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu
> >>
> > --
> > Thomas Gaul
> > Pirate Parties International (PPI)
> > - General Secretary -
> >
> > Board: Guillaume Saouli (Chairman), Bailey Lamon (Vice-Chairwoman),
> > Thomas Gaul (General Secretary), Keith L. Goldstein (Treasurer),
> > Raymond Johnson, Andrew Reitemeyer, Koen de Voegt (Board Members)
> >
> > Pirate Parties International
> > c/o Maître Dimitri Tzortzis
> > BST-Avocats
> > 4, boulevard des Tranchées
> > CH-1205 Genève
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> internationaler Koordinator - international Coordinator Piratenpartei
> Deutschland - Pirate Party of Germany
> 
> 
> Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115 Berlin, Germany
> 
> Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
> (Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister), Kristos
> Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
> (Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich (Stellvertretender
> Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier (Stellvertretender politischer
> Geschäftsführer)