Re: [Int-koordination] [PP-EU.programme] Common European Election Programme

[Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>]

Title: AW: [PP-EU.programme] Common European Election Programme

Dear Muriel,

 

I didn't get any other opinion on this until now except for Thomas Gaul's and he is agreeing with me: We just don't have the capacities right now to deal with the onion programme in parallel to the Common Programme and the ratification of the PPEU statutes before our GA at the beginning of December. Afterwards it is more than unclear, if the German Pirates will have the possibility to have another GA before the European elections where such an onion programme could be adopted.

 

I still think that it is a good idea to continue working on finding our similarities and make use of them through common campaigns, but we should not do it in an official document (yet), but rather informally after the beginning of December. Maybe we can find some time in Maastricht to meet up and discuss common positions and campaigns.

 

So I think it best to cancel the mumble meeting for tonight or use it to find a date for the official mumble meeting for the CEEP.

 

I'm sorry that I cannot bring you other news, but we all are working at the limits of our capacities.

 

Best regards,

 

Martina
 

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Muriel Rovira Esteva <muriel AT pirata.cat>
> Gesendet: Di 05.11.2013 21:44
> Betreff: Re: [PP-EU.programme] Common European Election Programme
> An: Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>; 
> Dear Martina,
>
> I received your email just after I sent mine.  :)
>
> I understand perfectly your concern that you won't have time to work
> on this. However, if you guys do not have time, then I doubt any other
> parties will.
>
> Besides, if PPDE drops it's not only about the work, which is already
> a serious problem (I don't have the time to be leading this myself),
> but mainly about the motivation.
>
> Honestly, if you guys think that you won't have time to vote this on
> your GA then I don't want to work on it myself. It wouldn't serve the
> purpose why I was doing it in the first place and I am too stressed
> already to engage in tasks that don't have a high outcome in the short
> term.  :P
>
> I'll be very grateful if you can discuss that among yourselves and
> evaluate the situation within your party in a realistic way. For me
> it's fine what you decide but, given the short deadlines that
> everything is framed on, I need to know ASAP.   :)
>
> Greetings,
>
>          Muriel
>
> 2013/11/5 Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>:
> > Hi Muriel,
> >
> > as I didn't talk with anyone else about this, I will not say that this is an
> > official statement, but just my personal opinion. And I probably wouldn't be
> > able to really participate due to time constraints.
> >
> > But maybe after this exchange of emails I get some feedback from the German
> > International Coordination on this topic as well. Perhaps Gregory might want
> > to jump in or someone else. I will come back to you, if I hear anything
> > different.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Martina
> >
> >
> > Am 05.11.2013 19:53, schrieb Muriel Rovira Esteva:
> >
> >> Dear Martina,
> >>
> >> This is perfectly fine.
> >>
> >> I had the impression at the previous meetings that many parties wanted
> >> to do this (specially PPDE, but many others as well), so I was willing
> >> to make the extra effort in order to have our part ready, but it is
> >> also very demanding for us to do everything (as it is for everyone).
> >>
> >> Honestly, I'm not interested in doing all this work just for the sake
> >> of it, but in any case, for sure not now, with all the other things
> >> that we all have to do.    :)
> >>
> >> I'd just like to know if your email is an "official statement" from
> >> PPDE because, if this is the case, then I suggest we forget about the
> >> whole thing (including any Mumble meeting for tomorrow or Thursday),
> >> it wouldn't make sense to do this without the German Pirate Party.
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >>           Muriel
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/11/5 Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Muriel,
> >>>
> >>> As I understood it, the 17th of November is the deadline for additional
> >>> proposals and proposals for changes on the CEEP. Directly afterwards
> >>> there
> >>> should be a mumble conference to discuss and vote all the proposals. We
> >>> could set up a date now or put up a doodle. I might do that tonight, if
> >>> no
> >>> one objects.
> >>>
> >>> The German Pirates will hopefully ratify the finished document already on
> >>> the 1st of December as it is the second and last day of our GA. So we
> >>> will
> >>> need it finished a day earlier, if at all possible. But as there are only
> >>> vetos left, this will hopefully be possible.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding the onion programme, I really like the idea, but I don't think
> >>> that we Germans have the capacities to work on it right now, as we are
> >>> having a lot to do to discuss the CEEP inside the party. And it might
> >>> also
> >>> be a problem to make it possible to get it ratified, as we don't know
> >>> yet,
> >>> if there will be another GA after Bremen at the beginning of December.
> >>> Right
> >>> now, we are already working hard on convincing everybody to ratify the
> >>> CEEP
> >>> then, as most people won't have time to read it in detail (and in German)
> >>> before the GA.
> >>>
> >>> Still, I think it would be a good idea to identify more common topics and
> >>> see which pirate parties would support them. The other problem of an
> >>> onion
> >>> programme is, which party will be left out of it. Do we leave the Swedish
> >>> out, because they vetoed most topics, but then again on many of those
> >>> topics, and others besides, there were vetos from other different parties
> >>> as
> >>> well. So I think it won't be easy to identify those topics which are
> >>> shared
> >>> by most of us and put them together. And in the end, it might alienate
> >>> those
> >>> parties which are left out of it. I'd rather like to do this unofficially
> >>> and as a base for common campaigning on a bi- and multilateral basis
> >>> topic
> >>> -by-topic (and at a later date).
> >>>
> >>> I hope that you can accept my reasoning, even if I am one of those
> >>> persons
> >>> who would have loved to have even more topics in a common programme. But
> >>> we
> >>> shouldn't hurry this process overmuch.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Martina
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 04.11.2013 16:23, schrieb Muriel:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello all,
> >>>>
> >>>> A summary of the whole thing as I understood it, just to make sure
> >>>> that we all have it in mind.  :)
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------
> >>>>
> >>>> COMMON PROGRAMME
> >>>>
> >>>> * On the 17th of November there will be an official "online
> >>>> conference" to discuss the amendments that might have been proposed
> >>>> during this time.
> >>>> * After this Mumble conference there will be a couple of weeks for the
> >>>> parties to veto unacceptable bits.
> >>>> * After the 1st of December we will start the ratification process.
> >>>> * When the ratification processes is finish we will build the Common
> >>>> Programme from the bits that have been ratified by all parties.
> >>>> * We will issue a press release announcing the Common Programme.
> >>>> * The parties will be free to use the Common Programme as it better
> >>>> suits their needs for the elections (as a stand alone text or
> >>>> including parts of it in their own programmes), but there should
> >>>> always be a clear reference directing to the whole text where people
> >>>> can see all the common points.
> >>>>
> >>>> We realized that we need to agree on a date for the press release and
> >>>> then set a deadline for the ratification so that we can collect the
> >>>> results and construct the final version of the Common Programme in
> >>>> time. The deadline suggested for the ratification process was around
> >>>> February (or beginning of March), and for the press release maybe on
> >>>> the same dates of the Founding (22nd of March?) if we want to have a
> >>>> large number of parties present, or something like two weeks earlier
> >>>> if presence is not needed and we want the press to talk about us on
> >>>> different consecutive days. The optimal dates could be discussed and
> >>>> decided upon on the Mumble conference of the 17th, once we're finished
> >>>> with the amendments.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----------
> >>>>
> >>>> ONION PROGRAMME
> >>>>
> >>>> Since we aimed for a consensus for the Common Programme, we left many
> >>>> things out. However, there's a vast majority of parties that agree on
> >>>> some of the proposals that were not included.
> >>>>
> >>>> Our idea is to detect such proposals and agree on the text as well, so
> >>>> that we have a compilation of "widely agreed proposals" that the
> >>>> interested parties can also include in their programmes if they want.
> >>>> These of course would not be part of the Common Programme, and would
> >>>> in principle not be mentioned in the press release. But it will be
> >>>> useful to parties that could benefit from presenting a wider support
> >>>> other than themselves to certain hot topics of interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> For convenience, the bits that were not included in the Common
> >>>> Programme and are potential proposals for the Onion one were collected
> >>>> during the conference in this pad:
> >>>> https://eu.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/view/Athens-no-consensus-bits/uNztmVMW8q
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The delegates of the interested parties should note in the pad
> >>>> their party name (before Wednesday the 6th) labeling the bits with
> >>>> which they might agree, the ones they don't, and the bits that would
> >>>> need some kind of change or amendment. This should be no extra work
> >>>> because the parties have had to look through the proposals already.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) This Wednesday, 6th of November, at 20.00 h CET, there will be a
> >>>> Mumble meeting to discuss the proposals with more support and prepare
> >>>> a draft of the proposals for this extended Onion Programme (if
> >>>> necessary, we would meet again on Thursday at the same time to finish
> >>>> any remaining bits).
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Following a parallel process to the proposals of the Common
> >>>> Programme, the parties will have time to submit amendments until
> >>>> around the same date as the CP and they will be also discussed on a
> >>>> Mumble meeting. It can be done in the same Mumble meeting after we're
> >>>> finished with the CP amendments, or on another date.
> >>>>
> >>>> 4) For the sake of simplicity, the same ratification process can take
> >>>> place in parallel for these proposals. This way, interested parties
> >>>> can just put all the proposals to vote simultaneously. Proposals
> >>>> ratified by all parties would  then make it to the Common Programme,
> >>>> and those ratified by a significant number of them to the Onion
> >>>> Programme.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>                Muriel
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2013/11/3 Martina Pöser <m.poeser AT web.de>:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the Conference in Athens is over and we bring you a Draft for a Common
> >>>>> European Election Programme:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013:consolidated_programme
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please take a look at it and hand in any proposals for a change or
> >>>>> addition
> >>>>> to it until the 17th of November to me and to this mailing list. Then
> >>>>> there
> >>>>> will be a mumble conference where we will decide upon any changes. The
> >>>>> exact
> >>>>> date and time of the mumble conference is as of yet still unknown, but
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> be announced in time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you like to take a further look of what we've been doing for and in
> >>>>> Athens, please take a look at the wiki page, where you can also find
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> protocol and the pad collecting the results with annotations:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can only say that I am very happy with the outcome of the conference
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> hope you will be, too, even if perhaps some of your favourite topics
> >>>>> haven't
> >>>>> been adopted. The adoption process was based on consent and not on
> >>>>> majority
> >>>>> decisions, so one party opposing a position was enough to kick a topic
> >>>>> out.
> >>>>> If you think about it, it is really fantastic that there is still so
> >>>>> much
> >>>>> left that we all have in common! :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martina
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >>>>> PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> >>>>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >>>>
> >>>> 2013/11/3 Martina Pöser <m.poeser AT web.de>:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the Conference in Athens is over and we bring you a Draft for a Common
> >>>>> European Election Programme:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013:consolidated_programme
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please take a look at it and hand in any proposals for a change or
> >>>>> addition
> >>>>> to it until the 17th of November to me and to this mailing list. Then
> >>>>> there
> >>>>> will be a mumble conference where we will decide upon any changes. The
> >>>>> exact
> >>>>> date and time of the mumble conference is as of yet still unknown, but
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> be announced in time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you like to take a further look of what we've been doing for and in
> >>>>> Athens, please take a look at the wiki page, where you can also find
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> protocol and the pad collecting the results with annotations:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can only say that I am very happy with the outcome of the conference
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> hope you will be, too, even if perhaps some of your favourite topics
> >>>>> haven't
> >>>>> been adopted. The adoption process was based on consent and not on
> >>>>> majority
> >>>>> decisions, so one party opposing a position was enough to kick a topic
> >>>>> out.
> >>>>> If you think about it, it is really fantastic that there is still so
> >>>>> much
> >>>>> left that we all have in common! :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martina
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >>>>> PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> >>>>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >>>> PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> >>>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >>> PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> >>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >> PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> >> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> > PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> > http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme