Re: [Int-koordination] [PP-EU.programme] Common European Election Programme

[Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>]

Hi Muriel,

as I didn't talk with anyone else about this, I will not say that this 
is an official statement, but just my personal opinion. And I probably 
wouldn't be able to really participate due to time constraints.

But maybe after this exchange of emails I get some feedback from the 
German International Coordination on this topic as well. Perhaps Gregory 
might want to jump in or someone else. I will come back to you, if I 
hear anything different.

Best regards,

Martina


Am 05.11.2013 19:53, schrieb Muriel Rovira Esteva:
> Dear Martina,
>
> This is perfectly fine.
>
> I had the impression at the previous meetings that many parties wanted
> to do this (specially PPDE, but many others as well), so I was willing
> to make the extra effort in order to have our part ready, but it is
> also very demanding for us to do everything (as it is for everyone).
>
> Honestly, I'm not interested in doing all this work just for the sake
> of it, but in any case, for sure not now, with all the other things
> that we all have to do.    :)
>
> I'd just like to know if your email is an "official statement" from
> PPDE because, if this is the case, then I suggest we forget about the
> whole thing (including any Mumble meeting for tomorrow or Thursday),
> it wouldn't make sense to do this without the German Pirate Party.
>
> Greetings,
>
>           Muriel
>
>
> 2013/11/5 Martina Pöser <martina.poeser AT bremen.piratenpartei.de>:
> > Dear Muriel,
> >
> > As I understood it, the 17th of November is the deadline for additional
> > proposals and proposals for changes on the CEEP. Directly afterwards there
> > should be a mumble conference to discuss and vote all the proposals. We
> > could set up a date now or put up a doodle. I might do that tonight, if no
> > one objects.
> >
> > The German Pirates will hopefully ratify the finished document already on
> > the 1st of December as it is the second and last day of our GA. So we will
> > need it finished a day earlier, if at all possible. But as there are only
> > vetos left, this will hopefully be possible.
> >
> > Regarding the onion programme, I really like the idea, but I don't think
> > that we Germans have the capacities to work on it right now, as we are
> > having a lot to do to discuss the CEEP inside the party. And it might also
> > be a problem to make it possible to get it ratified, as we don't know yet,
> > if there will be another GA after Bremen at the beginning of December. Right
> > now, we are already working hard on convincing everybody to ratify the CEEP
> > then, as most people won't have time to read it in detail (and in German)
> > before the GA.
> >
> > Still, I think it would be a good idea to identify more common topics and
> > see which pirate parties would support them. The other problem of an onion
> > programme is, which party will be left out of it. Do we leave the Swedish
> > out, because they vetoed most topics, but then again on many of those
> > topics, and others besides, there were vetos from other different parties as
> > well. So I think it won't be easy to identify those topics which are shared
> > by most of us and put them together. And in the end, it might alienate those
> > parties which are left out of it. I'd rather like to do this unofficially
> > and as a base for common campaigning on a bi- and multilateral basis topic
> > -by-topic (and at a later date).
> >
> > I hope that you can accept my reasoning, even if I am one of those persons
> > who would have loved to have even more topics in a common programme. But we
> > shouldn't hurry this process overmuch.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Martina
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 04.11.2013 16:23, schrieb Muriel:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > A summary of the whole thing as I understood it, just to make sure
> > > that we all have it in mind.  :)
> > >
> > > ----------
> > >
> > > COMMON PROGRAMME
> > >
> > > * On the 17th of November there will be an official "online
> > > conference" to discuss the amendments that might have been proposed
> > > during this time.
> > > * After this Mumble conference there will be a couple of weeks for the
> > > parties to veto unacceptable bits.
> > > * After the 1st of December we will start the ratification process.
> > > * When the ratification processes is finish we will build the Common
> > > Programme from the bits that have been ratified by all parties.
> > > * We will issue a press release announcing the Common Programme.
> > > * The parties will be free to use the Common Programme as it better
> > > suits their needs for the elections (as a stand alone text or
> > > including parts of it in their own programmes), but there should
> > > always be a clear reference directing to the whole text where people
> > > can see all the common points.
> > >
> > > We realized that we need to agree on a date for the press release and
> > > then set a deadline for the ratification so that we can collect the
> > > results and construct the final version of the Common Programme in
> > > time. The deadline suggested for the ratification process was around
> > > February (or beginning of March), and for the press release maybe on
> > > the same dates of the Founding (22nd of March?) if we want to have a
> > > large number of parties present, or something like two weeks earlier
> > > if presence is not needed and we want the press to talk about us on
> > > different consecutive days. The optimal dates could be discussed and
> > > decided upon on the Mumble conference of the 17th, once we're finished
> > > with the amendments.
> > >
> > > -----------
> > >
> > > ONION PROGRAMME
> > >
> > > Since we aimed for a consensus for the Common Programme, we left many
> > > things out. However, there's a vast majority of parties that agree on
> > > some of the proposals that were not included.
> > >
> > > Our idea is to detect such proposals and agree on the text as well, so
> > > that we have a compilation of "widely agreed proposals" that the
> > > interested parties can also include in their programmes if they want.
> > > These of course would not be part of the Common Programme, and would
> > > in principle not be mentioned in the press release. But it will be
> > > useful to parties that could benefit from presenting a wider support
> > > other than themselves to certain hot topics of interest.
> > >
> > > For convenience, the bits that were not included in the Common
> > > Programme and are potential proposals for the Onion one were collected
> > > during the conference in this pad:
> > > https://eu.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/view/Athens-no-consensus-bits/uNztmVMW8q
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) The delegates of the interested parties should note in the pad
> > > their party name (before Wednesday the 6th) labeling the bits with
> > > which they might agree, the ones they don't, and the bits that would
> > > need some kind of change or amendment. This should be no extra work
> > > because the parties have had to look through the proposals already.
> > >
> > > 2) This Wednesday, 6th of November, at 20.00 h CET, there will be a
> > > Mumble meeting to discuss the proposals with more support and prepare
> > > a draft of the proposals for this extended Onion Programme (if
> > > necessary, we would meet again on Thursday at the same time to finish
> > > any remaining bits).
> > >
> > > 3) Following a parallel process to the proposals of the Common
> > > Programme, the parties will have time to submit amendments until
> > > around the same date as the CP and they will be also discussed on a
> > > Mumble meeting. It can be done in the same Mumble meeting after we're
> > > finished with the CP amendments, or on another date.
> > >
> > > 4) For the sake of simplicity, the same ratification process can take
> > > place in parallel for these proposals. This way, interested parties
> > > can just put all the proposals to vote simultaneously. Proposals
> > > ratified by all parties would  then make it to the Common Programme,
> > > and those ratified by a significant number of them to the Onion
> > > Programme.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >                Muriel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/11/3 Martina Pöser <m.poeser AT web.de>:
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > the Conference in Athens is over and we bring you a Draft for a Common
> > > > European Election Programme:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013:consolidated_programme
> > > >
> > > > Please take a look at it and hand in any proposals for a change or
> > > > addition
> > > > to it until the 17th of November to me and to this mailing list. Then
> > > > there
> > > > will be a mumble conference where we will decide upon any changes. The
> > > > exact
> > > > date and time of the mumble conference is as of yet still unknown, but
> > > > will
> > > > be announced in time.
> > > >
> > > > If you like to take a further look of what we've been doing for and in
> > > > Athens, please take a look at the wiki page, where you can also find the
> > > > protocol and the pad collecting the results with annotations:
> > > >
> > > > http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013
> > > >
> > > > I can only say that I am very happy with the outcome of the conference
> > > > and
> > > > hope you will be, too, even if perhaps some of your favourite topics
> > > > haven't
> > > > been adopted. The adoption process was based on consent and not on
> > > > majority
> > > > decisions, so one party opposing a position was enough to kick a topic
> > > > out.
> > > > If you think about it, it is really fantastic that there is still so much
> > > > left that we all have in common! :-)
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Martina
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> > > > PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> > > > http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> > > 2013/11/3 Martina Pöser <m.poeser AT web.de>:
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > the Conference in Athens is over and we bring you a Draft for a Common
> > > > European Election Programme:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013:consolidated_programme
> > > >
> > > > Please take a look at it and hand in any proposals for a change or
> > > > addition
> > > > to it until the 17th of November to me and to this mailing list. Then
> > > > there
> > > > will be a mumble conference where we will decide upon any changes. The
> > > > exact
> > > > date and time of the mumble conference is as of yet still unknown, but
> > > > will
> > > > be announced in time.
> > > >
> > > > If you like to take a further look of what we've been doing for and in
> > > > Athens, please take a look at the wiki page, where you can also find the
> > > > protocol and the pad collecting the results with annotations:
> > > >
> > > > http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=programme:conferences:athens2013
> > > >
> > > > I can only say that I am very happy with the outcome of the conference
> > > > and
> > > > hope you will be, too, even if perhaps some of your favourite topics
> > > > haven't
> > > > been adopted. The adoption process was based on consent and not on
> > > > majority
> > > > decisions, so one party opposing a position was enough to kick a topic
> > > > out.
> > > > If you think about it, it is really fantastic that there is still so much
> > > > left that we all have in common! :-)
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Martina
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> > > > PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> > > > http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> > > PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> > > http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> > PP-EU.Programme AT lists.pp-international.net
> > http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> _______________________________________________
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