Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating withAG Meinungsfindungstool

["marc" <marc AT merkstduwas.de>]

Hi Micheal,

Currently the working group AG MFT tries to establish several kind of 
prototypes of a) one concrete methodology (qkonsens), b) concrete portal/web 
site (probble.de) and c) concrete Common Discussion Standard based on an 
ontology and a web api (disco.codeplex.com).

As you put it, all our work is part of #2 (Discussion System) within the 
overall decision-making process. But nevertheless, I don't think that our 
working group wants to be competitor to any other project in this area. Our 
aim is rather to cooperate with as much projects as possible.

Unfortunately the progress of our working group based on our volunteer work 
is not as fast as I would like to see it. For a better progress our working 
group devided into the following four teams:
a) Ontology Definition Team (ODT) - deals with the ontology specification.
b) Prototype Core Team (PCT) - deals with the imlementation of a database 
schema based on the ontology and a web api to access the data in a restful 
way.
c) Prototype Plug-In Team )PPT) - deals with the implementation of concrete 
discussion methodologies.
d) Public Releations Team (PRT) - deals with our 'public relations' ;o)

My individual next tasks are in terms of the PCT a) to create a conceptual 
description of our d!sco prototype on CodePlex and b) creating a first 
implementation of the Web API.

As soon as this is established, I would like to invite you to brainstorm 
about possible collaboration. From our point of view this is a question of 
how to make the data available for all other interested parties. Because our 
goal is to define a common discussion ontologie, inspired by and 
particularly based on eDialogus 
(http://www.imc.com.gr/ontologies/eDialogos/consensus/).

So the overall question to be answered from your side is: Do you want to 
participate in such kind of standardized ontology to enable easy data 
exchange with any participating tool?

I would like to welcome you. What do you think?

Cheers
marc


-----Original Message----- 
From: Michael Allan
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:19 AM
To: AG Meinungsfindungstool
Cc: Votorola ; Start/Metagov ; AG Liquid Democracy
Subject: Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating 
withAG Meinungsfindungstool

Thanks for offering, Marc.  We both feel the same.

To answer your question, our purpose is to coordinate plans of action
(i.e. to achieve public autonomy) by the method of discussion aimed at
mutual understanding and consensus (i.e. public opinion).  In your
diagram, this translates to "position forming" (Standpunktbildung)
based on a discussion system.

> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/7/72/MFT_BigPicture_v01.jpg
> Where would you locate Votorola inside this picture?

So we're sitting at #2.  That makes us competitors.  We (Votorolans,
Outcasters) have been at this for years, where you (AGM) are just
getting started.  But I welcome your offer to cooperate, because I
fear that otherwise we might do harm to people.  If either of our
platforms were ever to establish itself as a de-facto monopoly that
suppresses other choices through network effects, then users and
citizens would be robbed not only of their freedom, but also of the
opportunity to be the authors of that freedom.

How can we cooperate to prevent that?

Mike


marc said:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Yes, of course. We would also like to cooperate with Votorola.
>
> I don't know if you have seen the following big picture (overview of the
> decision-making-process) yet:
> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/7/72/MFT_BigPicture_v01.jpg
>
> Where would you locate Votorola inside this picture?
>
> Cheers
> marc
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Michael Allan
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 8:27 AM
> To: AG Meinungsfindungstool
> Cc: Votorola ; Start/Metagov ; AG Liquid Democracy
> Subject: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating with
> AGMeinungsfindungstool
>
> Hello Marc,  (cc Votorola, Metagov, AG Liquid Democracy)
>
> > Top 1 - Abstimmungen
> > Fragekatalog für SMVCon
> > http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/SMVConFragenkatalog
>
> Unfortunately I can't attend SMVcon.  But I'd like to share my answer
> to one item of the proposed questionnaire (Fragekatalog):
>
>   * Are you a developer?  If so, can you imagine cooperating with AG
>     Meinungsfindungstool in the development of a discussion tool?
>
> Yes, I'm a developer for Votorola.  Speaking for myself, I'd like to
> cooperate.  My main requirement would be that the core platform remain
> open to all technical designs, including Votorola's.  I think the
> competence to delimit the user's choice of tools belongs to the user
> alone, while we as responsible engineers are competent only to enhance
> and extend that personal choice, never to impede it!  We've long
> understood how to give each user complete freedom of choice in regard
> to discussion and opinion-forming tools.  We know of at least one
> solution (already posted to these lists) that nobody has yet found a
> fault with; namely free-range voting based on vote mirroring.
>
> Please let's not surrender our responsibilities and freedoms to a
> monopoly controlled by technocrats, or by anyone else.  Instead, let's
> root out the would-be monopolies and bust them up.  Or better yet,
> let's prevent them forming in the first place.  (Again, we know how,
> because it's the same solution.)
>
> --
> Michael Allan
>
> Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
> http://zelea.com/

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