Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] [ODDI] The problem of divorced consensus practices

[Steven Clift <clift AT e-democracy.org>]

Michael,

Welcome.

I think your questions and detail are pre-mature in our process.

A working group from the NCDD conference is just getting started and the frame (as I've perceived it) is primarily citizen dialogue/deliberation within the frame of public *input* into government/community.

The proposals are to launch collaborations around an idea not to come in with a detailed conclusion how things should/could/work.

IMHO, the goal of online fostered "consensus" among the public toward the end of fostering direct public action by members of the group is probably the most difficult/elusive goal. In-person, folks have a chance at this particularly in small groups, but this working group is not framed around picking one or the best hybrid in-person/online model. (Why the word open standards is key.)

Perhaps I am wrong in this, so if others think this query in within scope of our effort at this time, please speak up. Otherwise Michael I wanted to be up front and say I agree that your concern will probably not be addressed by this proposal drafting.

Thanks,
Steven Clift

On Oct 26, 2012 6:03 AM, "Michael Allan" <mike AT zelea.com> wrote:

Hi folks, (cc Metagov, AG Meinungsfindungstool)

I joined the ODDI working group because I suspect I have a personal
concern with what you're working on.  Specifically my concern involves
the problem of "split consensus", as my friend Thomas von der Elbe has
called it, or "divorced consensus practices" as I refer to it here.
But I'm not quite sure I've got you pegged correctly, so please help
me; I have a few questions.

(i). Will your proposal for a common "network infrastructure", as John
Spady has called it, accomodate (among other facilities) a facility of
formal opinion _expression_?  To explain what I mean by "formal opinion
_expression_", imagine a potential participant approaches the working
group and asks about the proposed infrastructure.  She (or he) asks,

   * Where do I express my own opinion on this infrastructure?

   * Where can I see the individual opinions of others?

   * Where can I see the overall shape of collective opinion that
     we're forming together?

   * Where can I see how my own efforts are helping to shape it?

She is asking for a facility of formal opinion _expression_, as I call
it; one that reveals a "picture" having these basic elements:


   (1)                 my opinion (one dot)
             ....         |
          ..........      V
        ..............   ....  -+
       .......................  |  dissensus, or
       ......................   |  budding counter
        .............   ....    |  consensus here
          ..........           -+
             ...
      |               |
      +---------------+
       rough consensus
          over here


    http://zelea.com/var/tmp-public/oddi/div-consensus-1.txt
    (if the diagram is distorted and your mail client lacks a
    fixed-width font, please visit the temporary link above)


Here we see individual opinion (one dot), collective opinion (whole
picture) and some sense of how they interrelate.  This is a very crude
illustration - no tool is likely to provide a visualization quite like
this, and a good one would reveal much more information - but these
are the *essential kinds* of information that are revealed.  Will this
type of facility be accomodated in the infrastructure you propose?


(ii). Are groups and practitioners to have a free choice of formal
opinion _expression_ tools (along with other important tools), such that
each may choose the tool that best suits their (or his, or her)
particular needs?


(iii). Despite the resulting diversity of practices (from ii), will
you attempt to formally interlink the local "islands" of opinion
_expression_ (again, I focus just on that aspect) into some kind of
larger whole?  I try to illustrate what I mean:


   (2)       ....
          ..........  O
        ..............   ....
       .......................
       ......................
        .............   ....
          ..........
             ...


            +-----+  +-----+
            |     |  |     |
            | T1  |  | T2  |
            |     |  |     |
            +-|-|-+  +-|-|-+
    +---------|-|------|-|---+
    |         | |      | |   |
    |                        |
    |    N                   |
    |                        |
    +------------------------+


     O  Opinion in formation
     T  Competing tools
     N  Network infrastructure,
        common standards, and such

    http://zelea.com/var/tmp-public/oddi/div-consensus-2.txt


T1 and T2 are alternative tools for the purpose of opinion _expression_
(just to focus on that formal category).  A group may choose T1 or T2
for this purpose, but regardless of the choice (say T2), the group may
nevertheless remain part of a single, larger opinion forming process
(O above).  So the group might work together (in some sense) with
other groups who make different technical choices here (say T1).  This
freedom of choice is made possible by the common network
infrastructure (N) into which the tools are "plugged".  Does the ODDI
hope to support such broad, formal interaction of opinion forming
practices (among other important D & D practices)?

Best to all,

--
Michael Allan

Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
http://zelea.com/

Michael Allan
Crescent Town, Toronto
About/contact Michael Allan: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/59OMPWrXW2xNSV7q11Ad4Y

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